Hey crew! So as Sage 9 gets better and leaner, we’re trying to figure out how many people actually want Bootstrap included by default anymore. The production build time for a project without Bootstrap is 6x faster with Bootstrap removed. We were chatting about it and we think it might be best to as…

Submitted a PR that has includes the option for removing Bootstrap when creating a new project: [retlehs] Add option to remove Bootstrap when creating project by retlehs on 03:01AM - 14 Jan 17 4 commits changed 3 files with 44 additions and 290 deletions. …

There’s a point at which you’ve stripped things back so far that you’re just shipping the “concept of PHP and HTML”. Strong, working examples are a valuable jumping off point especially for users new to one or more of the technologies involved in developing with Sage. I know it helped me when I was …

[image] ben: The majority of our users are also Bootstrap users. Well, that’s probably because the theme comes with it. Maybe some devs avoid Sage because it comes with Bootstrap, and maybe some would use other frontend frameworks if Bootstrap wasn’t in there by default.

That’s a good point, and honestly Bootstrap was one of the main reasons why I started picking up Roots. I do feel like reading docs is an important skill however and if we blatantly advertised “It’s easy to add Bootstrap and this is how!” – going through that process might help people understand bet…

Why not just feature the various forks more prominently in the docs?

I’ve started removing it. There are a few CSS files that have to be rewritten, but it’s a small amount, mainly in wp-classes.scss. Removing bootstrap also makes it easier to remove jquery down the line. I think more and more devs will move in this direction in time, but I may be wrong.

[image] JulienMelissas: going through that process might help people understand better how to add 3rd party dependencies in general (which is like 50% of our support threads haha). ¯(ツ)/¯ We are clearly thinking along the same lines today :slight_smile:

Some of us have said it might be good to allow integration guides to other frameworks in the docs, but the problem is that forks might not be maintained, or explain how they’re implemented. IMO a solid piece of documentation on adding Bootstrap would be more useful and not too hard for us to maintai…

The main goal should be to teach users how to add their own frontend library of choice. A specific walkthrough for adding Bootstrap could be used to illustrate that practically.

Exactly. I feel like if we keep the Bootstrap one maintained, we have a clear example for people to add a 3rd party lib with JS, CSS, and (optionally) a font (Font Awesome). Helps people understand how it’s done, and encourages them to dive a little bit deeper into how Sage works.

How about official forks, maintained by the Roots team? I’d help out however needed. I understand the thought behind it, but some of the selling points for Bootstrap, for me, is that it provides a great set of standard defaults and it allows us to get projects up and running fast. I feel like, by…

[POLL] Removing Bootstrap by Default

sage

MWDelaney January 13, 2017, 7:26pm 8

We are clearly thinking along the same lines today

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